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	<title>Comments on: Rethinking Transitions Part 2</title>
	<atom:link href="http://madinkbeard.com/blog/archives/rethinking-transitions-part-2/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://madinkbeard.com/blog/archives/rethinking-transitions-part-2</link>
	<description>{ Derik Badman's Writing on Comics (mostly) }</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:11:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: 'trix</title>
		<link>http://madinkbeard.com/blog/archives/rethinking-transitions-part-2#comment-16099</link>
		<dc:creator>'trix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madinkbeard.com/blog/archives/rethinking-transitions-part-2#comment-16099</guid>
		<description>Regarding your first example, I take it you're considering only diegetic time.  Repetition, while arresting or reversing diegetic time, still consumes or occupies non-diegetic, or the readers' time, assuming a left to right scan of panels in sequence.  

Wondering if you've had opportunity to watch the classic example of time/space disruptions in early cinema - Life of an American Fireman- wherein one scene uses a violation of spatial stability to indicate simultaneity, and the other where temporal continuity is violated instead.  The potential for comics to move in different directions than did film editing is interesting.  

I'm curious as to how comics, in dealing w/ time and space in panel transitions, might NOT mirror the conventions of continuity editing that ultimately came to be dominant in film.  Have comics ever gone down a different path or are the two forms forced to share the same resolution to those space/time problems?  Does the illusion of motion give film an advantage in overcoming those problems?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding your first example, I take it you&#8217;re considering only diegetic time.  Repetition, while arresting or reversing diegetic time, still consumes or occupies non-diegetic, or the readers&#8217; time, assuming a left to right scan of panels in sequence.  </p>
<p>Wondering if you&#8217;ve had opportunity to watch the classic example of time/space disruptions in early cinema - Life of an American Fireman- wherein one scene uses a violation of spatial stability to indicate simultaneity, and the other where temporal continuity is violated instead.  The potential for comics to move in different directions than did film editing is interesting.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m curious as to how comics, in dealing w/ time and space in panel transitions, might NOT mirror the conventions of continuity editing that ultimately came to be dominant in film.  Have comics ever gone down a different path or are the two forms forced to share the same resolution to those space/time problems?  Does the illusion of motion give film an advantage in overcoming those problems?</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://madinkbeard.com/blog/archives/rethinking-transitions-part-2#comment-16098</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madinkbeard.com/blog/archives/rethinking-transitions-part-2#comment-16098</guid>
		<description>I generally agree Ben. One of the characteristics of my approach in contrast to McCloud's is the degree of scope. All of his relations are just of one panel to the next, whereas mine starts off saying that "a sequence of panels conveys an action/event/situation/idea" and then looks to break that sequence into the functional roles that panels play in relation to the whole.

Even though reading and writing occur linearly, understanding might not. This is why I used ambiguous sequences in my book to show how one sequence might actually have multiple separate meanings based on the chunking of the overall sequences parts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I generally agree Ben. One of the characteristics of my approach in contrast to McCloud&#8217;s is the degree of scope. All of his relations are just of one panel to the next, whereas mine starts off saying that &#8220;a sequence of panels conveys an action/event/situation/idea&#8221; and then looks to break that sequence into the functional roles that panels play in relation to the whole.</p>
<p>Even though reading and writing occur linearly, understanding might not. This is why I used ambiguous sequences in my book to show how one sequence might actually have multiple separate meanings based on the chunking of the overall sequences parts.</p>
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		<title>By: DerikB</title>
		<link>http://madinkbeard.com/blog/archives/rethinking-transitions-part-2#comment-16077</link>
		<dc:creator>DerikB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madinkbeard.com/blog/archives/rethinking-transitions-part-2#comment-16077</guid>
		<description>Neil: I'll reread the newer articles. What can I say? Maybe I need to start here too.

For me, at least, doing this kind of thing does make me think more about the choices I make when I'm making my comics.

Ben: No doubt a lot of ambiguity comes from isolated panels. But I think it is useful to look at how the panels are put together from one to the next. Again, helps me when I start planning pages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neil: I&#8217;ll reread the newer articles. What can I say? Maybe I need to start here too.</p>
<p>For me, at least, doing this kind of thing does make me think more about the choices I make when I&#8217;m making my comics.</p>
<p>Ben: No doubt a lot of ambiguity comes from isolated panels. But I think it is useful to look at how the panels are put together from one to the next. Again, helps me when I start planning pages.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Towle</title>
		<link>http://madinkbeard.com/blog/archives/rethinking-transitions-part-2#comment-16074</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Towle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madinkbeard.com/blog/archives/rethinking-transitions-part-2#comment-16074</guid>
		<description>I wonder if many of the problems with this sort of analysis--including McCloud--is due to looking at two isolated panels which are presumably part of a larger whole.  Certainly this isn't representative of the way comics are actually read.  There's a cognitive difference between reading a comics page and "reading" a sequence of images one at a time as in, say, being projected in a "slide show" fashion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if many of the problems with this sort of analysis&#8211;including McCloud&#8211;is due to looking at two isolated panels which are presumably part of a larger whole.  Certainly this isn&#8217;t representative of the way comics are actually read.  There&#8217;s a cognitive difference between reading a comics page and &#8220;reading&#8221; a sequence of images one at a time as in, say, being projected in a &#8220;slide show&#8221; fashion.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://madinkbeard.com/blog/archives/rethinking-transitions-part-2#comment-15947</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 02:29:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madinkbeard.com/blog/archives/rethinking-transitions-part-2#comment-15947</guid>
		<description>Actually, this type of varied juxtaposition is one of the ways that I started out doing my analyses. However, you'll find that an underlying theme I work off is that no linear analysis works, because of distance problems between connecting panels (among other reasons).

I think if you read closer, especially my new stuff, you'll see that I too am concerned with "narrative" to a high degree — I just think its structure looks an awful lot like grammar (or more appropriately, that this VL grammar looks a lot like narrative). See for instance my later paper &lt;a href="http://www.emaki.net/readings.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Initial Refiner Projection&lt;/a&gt; for a gimpse of this later approach to my grammar. A larger version of this approach was what I presented at San Diego this year, but haven't posted online.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, this type of varied juxtaposition is one of the ways that I started out doing my analyses. However, you&#8217;ll find that an underlying theme I work off is that no linear analysis works, because of distance problems between connecting panels (among other reasons).</p>
<p>I think if you read closer, especially my new stuff, you&#8217;ll see that I too am concerned with &#8220;narrative&#8221; to a high degree — I just think its structure looks an awful lot like grammar (or more appropriately, that this VL grammar looks a lot like narrative). See for instance my later paper <a href="http://www.emaki.net/readings.html" rel="nofollow">Initial Refiner Projection</a> for a gimpse of this later approach to my grammar. A larger version of this approach was what I presented at San Diego this year, but haven&#8217;t posted online.</p>
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