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	<title>Comments on: Ending Asterios Polyp</title>
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	<description>{ Derik Badman&#039;s Writing on Comics (mostly) }</description>
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		<title>By: DerikB</title>
		<link>http://madinkbeard.com/archives/ending-asterios-polyp/comment-page-1#comment-308320</link>
		<dc:creator>DerikB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2011 13:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madinkbeard.com/?p=2243#comment-308320</guid>
		<description>&quot;A prose writer can get away with something like, &#039;then they made love, and heaven crashed into earth and the world ended and was reborn all at once&#039;, and it&#039;s crystal clear what is &#039;really&#039; happening, but a comic artist has to show, not just tell, so it&#039;s trickier. I think Mazzuchelli was being experimental and bold, trying to expand the &#039;comics vocabulary&#039; and break new ground, etc. I do think he handled it poorly, though.&quot;

Film has handled similar metaphors in a number of ways (particular in classic movies where sex had to be implied). If that was the metaphor Mazzuchelli was going for, he did handle it quite poorly. He could have shown similar imagery without making it look like the house is in the path. Also, having the kid see the meteor takes is out of the metaphorical space, since a character in the storyworld is also seeing it. (He wouldn&#039;t be able to &quot;see&quot; a metaphor.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A prose writer can get away with something like, &#8216;then they made love, and heaven crashed into earth and the world ended and was reborn all at once&#8217;, and it&#8217;s crystal clear what is &#8216;really&#8217; happening, but a comic artist has to show, not just tell, so it&#8217;s trickier. I think Mazzuchelli was being experimental and bold, trying to expand the &#8216;comics vocabulary&#8217; and break new ground, etc. I do think he handled it poorly, though.&#8221;</p>
<p>Film has handled similar metaphors in a number of ways (particular in classic movies where sex had to be implied). If that was the metaphor Mazzuchelli was going for, he did handle it quite poorly. He could have shown similar imagery without making it look like the house is in the path. Also, having the kid see the meteor takes is out of the metaphorical space, since a character in the storyworld is also seeing it. (He wouldn&#8217;t be able to &#8220;see&#8221; a metaphor.)</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Hamilton</title>
		<link>http://madinkbeard.com/archives/ending-asterios-polyp/comment-page-1#comment-308319</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Hamilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2011 23:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madinkbeard.com/?p=2243#comment-308319</guid>
		<description>&quot;That’s not really conclusive proof of anything.&quot;

Indeed it is not, (of course this is my two cents, and this is the kind of work that the &#039;reader brings meaning to by the act of reading it&#039;) but there&#039;s also no conclusive proof that it&#039;s not a sudden metaphor and is there just to shake the reader and get them thinking. 

Still on this topic of proof and reality; there is a real town in the actual world called &#039;Ithaca&#039;, not to mention New York, but &#039;Apogee&#039; is some kind of metaphor as far as I can tell. How much of this book is &#039;real&#039; and how much is metaphor? This book is set 10 years or so ago in the real past, but was there a major meteor strike in the real world then, as there is a real town called Ithaca? It might not be possible or desirable to separate the real from the fictional in every case here, ie. to ask for conclusive proof. A prose writer can get away with something like, &#039;then they made love, and heaven crashed into earth and the world ended and was reborn all at once&#039;, and it&#039;s crystal clear what is &#039;really&#039; happening, but a comic artist has to show, not just tell, so it&#039;s trickier. I think Mazzuchelli was being experimental and bold, trying to expand the &#039;comics vocabulary&#039; and break new ground, etc. I do think he handled it poorly, though. 

One other thing which I forgot to mention before: The imagery of the meteor hitting the earth is (along with the creation of life, father sky/mother earth allusions already discussed) resembles a sperm going into an ovum. 

I&#039;ll leave it at that; bascially I think the meteor srike is a metaphorical image.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;That’s not really conclusive proof of anything.&#8221;</p>
<p>Indeed it is not, (of course this is my two cents, and this is the kind of work that the &#8216;reader brings meaning to by the act of reading it&#8217;) but there&#8217;s also no conclusive proof that it&#8217;s not a sudden metaphor and is there just to shake the reader and get them thinking. </p>
<p>Still on this topic of proof and reality; there is a real town in the actual world called &#8216;Ithaca&#8217;, not to mention New York, but &#8216;Apogee&#8217; is some kind of metaphor as far as I can tell. How much of this book is &#8216;real&#8217; and how much is metaphor? This book is set 10 years or so ago in the real past, but was there a major meteor strike in the real world then, as there is a real town called Ithaca? It might not be possible or desirable to separate the real from the fictional in every case here, ie. to ask for conclusive proof. A prose writer can get away with something like, &#8216;then they made love, and heaven crashed into earth and the world ended and was reborn all at once&#8217;, and it&#8217;s crystal clear what is &#8216;really&#8217; happening, but a comic artist has to show, not just tell, so it&#8217;s trickier. I think Mazzuchelli was being experimental and bold, trying to expand the &#8216;comics vocabulary&#8217; and break new ground, etc. I do think he handled it poorly, though. </p>
<p>One other thing which I forgot to mention before: The imagery of the meteor hitting the earth is (along with the creation of life, father sky/mother earth allusions already discussed) resembles a sperm going into an ovum. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll leave it at that; bascially I think the meteor srike is a metaphorical image.</p>
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		<title>By: DerikB</title>
		<link>http://madinkbeard.com/archives/ending-asterios-polyp/comment-page-1#comment-308311</link>
		<dc:creator>DerikB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Sep 2011 19:30:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madinkbeard.com/?p=2243#comment-308311</guid>
		<description>&quot;We know this because on the following page we see the meteor as it actually appears, 1000-odd miles to the left, as a normal shooting star looks, a harmless little line on the sky.&quot;

I don&#039;t see it on the following page, but a few pages later we see it from the point of view of Ursula and family. But we don&#039;t know how far away their house is from where Hana lives. They could be far enough away that the large piece about to hit the house looks much smaller (as things in the distance tend to do).

&quot;However the reason I came to the conclusion I did is because I cannot believe someone who spent 9 years and a huge amount of effort on a story as good as this one would end it in such a ridiculous way.&quot;

That&#039;s not really conclusive proof of anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We know this because on the following page we see the meteor as it actually appears, 1000-odd miles to the left, as a normal shooting star looks, a harmless little line on the sky.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see it on the following page, but a few pages later we see it from the point of view of Ursula and family. But we don&#8217;t know how far away their house is from where Hana lives. They could be far enough away that the large piece about to hit the house looks much smaller (as things in the distance tend to do).</p>
<p>&#8220;However the reason I came to the conclusion I did is because I cannot believe someone who spent 9 years and a huge amount of effort on a story as good as this one would end it in such a ridiculous way.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not really conclusive proof of anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Hamilton</title>
		<link>http://madinkbeard.com/archives/ending-asterios-polyp/comment-page-1#comment-308306</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Hamilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2011 07:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madinkbeard.com/?p=2243#comment-308306</guid>
		<description>(cross-posted...)

The meteor was a metaphor. A ‘meteorphor’, if you like. We know this because on the following page we see the meteor as it actually appears, 1000-odd miles to the left, as a normal shooting star looks, a harmless little line on the sky. The ‘giant meteor’ thing is a reference to the picnic Polyp had with Ursula at the crater, where they talked about creation myhs involving ‘father sky and mother earth’, something thrusting into the earth if you want to get cruder. (This is also a reference to the not-uncommon scientific belief that life on earth started when a meteor carrying extraterrestrial biological cells hit earth, and then started evolving.) So what happened? Hana and Asterios put the past behind them and made love. The asteroid symbolised the creation of a ‘new world’ for them; new life together, new romance, presumably, a new baby too. More crudely, it symbolised a penis. It is the kind of explosive, energetic, primal lovemaking that one could describe as ‘two worlds colliding’. We also know that Mazzuchelli has used metaphor before in this comic, often; the ‘descent into Hades’ scene a perfect example.

Yes, Mazzuchelli handled it quite poorly, which I can see by the number of people who did not understand the ending. However the reason I came to the conclusion I did is because I cannot believe someone who spent 9 years and a huge amount of effort on a story as good as this one would end it in such a ridiculous way. So fellas, ladies, relax – it’s not the end of the world, it’s just a metaphor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(cross-posted&#8230;)</p>
<p>The meteor was a metaphor. A ‘meteorphor’, if you like. We know this because on the following page we see the meteor as it actually appears, 1000-odd miles to the left, as a normal shooting star looks, a harmless little line on the sky. The ‘giant meteor’ thing is a reference to the picnic Polyp had with Ursula at the crater, where they talked about creation myhs involving ‘father sky and mother earth’, something thrusting into the earth if you want to get cruder. (This is also a reference to the not-uncommon scientific belief that life on earth started when a meteor carrying extraterrestrial biological cells hit earth, and then started evolving.) So what happened? Hana and Asterios put the past behind them and made love. The asteroid symbolised the creation of a ‘new world’ for them; new life together, new romance, presumably, a new baby too. More crudely, it symbolised a penis. It is the kind of explosive, energetic, primal lovemaking that one could describe as ‘two worlds colliding’. We also know that Mazzuchelli has used metaphor before in this comic, often; the ‘descent into Hades’ scene a perfect example.</p>
<p>Yes, Mazzuchelli handled it quite poorly, which I can see by the number of people who did not understand the ending. However the reason I came to the conclusion I did is because I cannot believe someone who spent 9 years and a huge amount of effort on a story as good as this one would end it in such a ridiculous way. So fellas, ladies, relax – it’s not the end of the world, it’s just a metaphor.</p>
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		<title>By: SirSluka</title>
		<link>http://madinkbeard.com/archives/ending-asterios-polyp/comment-page-1#comment-240583</link>
		<dc:creator>SirSluka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Dec 2010 23:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madinkbeard.com/?p=2243#comment-240583</guid>
		<description>I agree with Ken&#039;s dual ending theory, and would like to point out that the image on the next page starting the chapter with the child and Asterios&#039; watch is a yellow tree looks suspiciously like a mushroom cloud from an impact explosion, giving off the over all impression of impact.  When closely examined we see the tree and house clearly, providing two meanings to the beginning of the epilogue.

I choose both endings, because throughout the book the idea that individual worlds being separate and equally valid is mentioned in different and intriguing ways. There exists for every possibility two possibilities for every action either it IS or it ISN&#039;T, both being equally valid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Ken&#8217;s dual ending theory, and would like to point out that the image on the next page starting the chapter with the child and Asterios&#8217; watch is a yellow tree looks suspiciously like a mushroom cloud from an impact explosion, giving off the over all impression of impact.  When closely examined we see the tree and house clearly, providing two meanings to the beginning of the epilogue.</p>
<p>I choose both endings, because throughout the book the idea that individual worlds being separate and equally valid is mentioned in different and intriguing ways. There exists for every possibility two possibilities for every action either it IS or it ISN&#8217;T, both being equally valid.</p>
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		<title>By: ScottF</title>
		<link>http://madinkbeard.com/archives/ending-asterios-polyp/comment-page-1#comment-168856</link>
		<dc:creator>ScottF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 17:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madinkbeard.com/?p=2243#comment-168856</guid>
		<description>I agree with Ken on the idea that the size/destructive potential of the asteroid is very much open to interpretation, but also that Derik and Robs&#039; analyses have plenty of evidence, themselves. Overall, I think that Mazzuchelli was giving us an ending that fits the elegance and complexity of the work it concludes. Perhaps most importantly, he was showing just how much you can do with a single pane and a text bubble; Mazzuchelli wrote an ending that expresses the power and depth graphic novels as a media are capable of. 

My interpretation goes on what is immediately there: a scene of a house on a hill with an asteriod seemingly &quot;tacked on&quot; in the center, and a child giving his perspective on it (the &quot;shooting star&quot; comment). Given the lengthy discussions on perspective, specifically the one with the composer where each audience member contributes their own view to the experience, it seems to me the ending can be given as much interpretive meaning (a literal death paralleling the opening) or as little (the child at end) as the reader desires. It&#039;s an act of generosity if you ask me. 

That being said, Derik constructs an excellent argument for his interpretation (I especially liked the part on the &quot;rest in peace&quot; panel). However, I will have to disagree with the notion that the house will be obliterated, if only because an asteriod large enough to destroy a house, or that is several times the size of a house if the perspective in the panel is accurate, would not appear as a shooting star so much as an intensely violent fireball streaking across the sky.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Ken on the idea that the size/destructive potential of the asteroid is very much open to interpretation, but also that Derik and Robs&#8217; analyses have plenty of evidence, themselves. Overall, I think that Mazzuchelli was giving us an ending that fits the elegance and complexity of the work it concludes. Perhaps most importantly, he was showing just how much you can do with a single pane and a text bubble; Mazzuchelli wrote an ending that expresses the power and depth graphic novels as a media are capable of. </p>
<p>My interpretation goes on what is immediately there: a scene of a house on a hill with an asteriod seemingly &#8220;tacked on&#8221; in the center, and a child giving his perspective on it (the &#8220;shooting star&#8221; comment). Given the lengthy discussions on perspective, specifically the one with the composer where each audience member contributes their own view to the experience, it seems to me the ending can be given as much interpretive meaning (a literal death paralleling the opening) or as little (the child at end) as the reader desires. It&#8217;s an act of generosity if you ask me. </p>
<p>That being said, Derik constructs an excellent argument for his interpretation (I especially liked the part on the &#8220;rest in peace&#8221; panel). However, I will have to disagree with the notion that the house will be obliterated, if only because an asteriod large enough to destroy a house, or that is several times the size of a house if the perspective in the panel is accurate, would not appear as a shooting star so much as an intensely violent fireball streaking across the sky.</p>
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		<title>By: DerikB</title>
		<link>http://madinkbeard.com/archives/ending-asterios-polyp/comment-page-1#comment-168397</link>
		<dc:creator>DerikB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 13:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madinkbeard.com/?p=2243#comment-168397</guid>
		<description>Hey Ken, that&#039;s a good point about the ambiguity of the size of the asteroid. I&#039;m going to stick with my version though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Ken, that&#8217;s a good point about the ambiguity of the size of the asteroid. I&#8217;m going to stick with my version though.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://madinkbeard.com/archives/ending-asterios-polyp/comment-page-1#comment-168373</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 22:27:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madinkbeard.com/?p=2243#comment-168373</guid>
		<description>I just finished the book and loved it. I initially felt the shock of the asteroid striking the house when I saw the last image and was curious what others felt.  I acknowledge your strong case that justifies a tragic ending.  However looking back a the whole theme of duality in the book I think Mazzucchelli played a clever visual trick with the asteroid that allows the reader to interpret the ending based on their own point of view.  

The landscape is a pure silhouette providing no sense of depth, and the bright, relatively detailed &quot;asteroid&quot; does not intersect with the landscape.  The asteroid may just be a close up of a soft ball sized meteor in the foreground that is close to the viewer and the house safe, half a mile away.  Or it can be seen as you have stated and I initially thought, a massive asteroid about to obliterate a house and probably much more.  

Asterios asks, &quot;What&#039;s that noise?&quot;  But again with this being a comic we obviously don&#039;t &quot;hear&quot; anything.  Maybe the meteor is large enough to make a noise on re-entry but still far enough away not to hit the house, or maybe the furnace or hot water heater is hissing.  Again it is left to the reader this time to fill in what is heard.  If this was made into a movie, it would be nearly impossible to leave such a vague ending.  Thus I hope Hollywood leaves this one alone.  It&#039;s a brilliant gem of the comic medium.

P.S. I chose a hopeful ending.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just finished the book and loved it. I initially felt the shock of the asteroid striking the house when I saw the last image and was curious what others felt.  I acknowledge your strong case that justifies a tragic ending.  However looking back a the whole theme of duality in the book I think Mazzucchelli played a clever visual trick with the asteroid that allows the reader to interpret the ending based on their own point of view.  </p>
<p>The landscape is a pure silhouette providing no sense of depth, and the bright, relatively detailed &#8220;asteroid&#8221; does not intersect with the landscape.  The asteroid may just be a close up of a soft ball sized meteor in the foreground that is close to the viewer and the house safe, half a mile away.  Or it can be seen as you have stated and I initially thought, a massive asteroid about to obliterate a house and probably much more.  </p>
<p>Asterios asks, &#8220;What&#8217;s that noise?&#8221;  But again with this being a comic we obviously don&#8217;t &#8220;hear&#8221; anything.  Maybe the meteor is large enough to make a noise on re-entry but still far enough away not to hit the house, or maybe the furnace or hot water heater is hissing.  Again it is left to the reader this time to fill in what is heard.  If this was made into a movie, it would be nearly impossible to leave such a vague ending.  Thus I hope Hollywood leaves this one alone.  It&#8217;s a brilliant gem of the comic medium.</p>
<p>P.S. I chose a hopeful ending.</p>
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		<title>By: DerikB</title>
		<link>http://madinkbeard.com/archives/ending-asterios-polyp/comment-page-1#comment-168181</link>
		<dc:creator>DerikB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:45:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madinkbeard.com/?p=2243#comment-168181</guid>
		<description>Thanks for pointing that out, Rob, I must have missed your review. HDF Kitto in his &quot;Greek Tragedy&quot; makes a great case for &quot;hubris&quot; not being the defining element of Greek tragedy that most take it for (at least I&#039;m pretty sure that was Kitto who made that claim), but that certainly seems to be Mazzucchelli&#039;s opinion (that it is).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for pointing that out, Rob, I must have missed your review. HDF Kitto in his &#8220;Greek Tragedy&#8221; makes a great case for &#8220;hubris&#8221; not being the defining element of Greek tragedy that most take it for (at least I&#8217;m pretty sure that was Kitto who made that claim), but that certainly seems to be Mazzucchelli&#8217;s opinion (that it is).</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Clough</title>
		<link>http://madinkbeard.com/archives/ending-asterios-polyp/comment-page-1#comment-168180</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Clough</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://madinkbeard.com/?p=2243#comment-168180</guid>
		<description>Derek,

 I actually do discuss the ending in my review here:

http://highlowcomics.blogspot.com/2009/07/two-and-three-asterios-polyp.html

 My take on the book is that it&#039;s very much a classic Greek tragedy, where hubris is eventually punished.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Derek,</p>
<p> I actually do discuss the ending in my review here:</p>
<p><a href="http://highlowcomics.blogspot.com/2009/07/two-and-three-asterios-polyp.html" rel="nofollow">http://highlowcomics.blogspot.com/2009/07/two-and-three-asterios-polyp.html</a></p>
<p> My take on the book is that it&#8217;s very much a classic Greek tragedy, where hubris is eventually punished.</p>
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